Dr. Samantha Cutrara:        All right, let’s get started. Leanne, thank you so much for agreeing to speak with me today. I know how busy you are, and I just really appreciate you making the time. Thank you so much.

Leanne Young:        Thanks, Samantha, for having me here.

SC:        Do you want to introduce yourself? I gave a little bit of an introduction before we came on the call, but do you want to introduce yourself a little bit more?

LY:        For sure. My name is Leanne Young. I am a teacher in Simcoe County District School Board. I am the chair of the Canada World Studies Department at Orillia Secondary School. And I’ve been teaching for 21 years mainly teaching history, drama, dance, English, and some social sciences throughout my career. So I love being in the classroom and have really sort of taken this time to sort of re-evaluate my own teaching practices.

SC:        One of the things that I loved about like the information that you sent me, because I knew a little bit about your work, but not a lot apparently, once you sent me your biography is your connection with drama and English and I think those are such powerful subjects to like learn with history. And so, well hopefully, that will come up in this conversation, but no pressure if it doesn’t.

LY:        No problem. That’s —

SC:        So the first question — sorry. Please.

LY:        Yup. No, go ahead.

SC:        So the first question that I’d like to start with is about whether or not your thoughts of history have changed during this period? Because I certainly felt like it was this — we heard these — I certainly felt that it was like this weird reconsideration of so many different things when the pandemic started and history was one of them. Has history, the idea of history changed for you at all during this period?

LY:        From more so for the point of teaching history. I have been teaching a number of years, have changed sort of my pedagogy on how I introduce concepts to our students in the classroom by definitely taking it from a storytelling point of view, and that’s where the drama and English come in.

LY:        We look at history from people’s perspective and playing upon those for historical thinking concepts that are underwritten within the curriculums at the high school level. I really pay close attention to historical perspective. So when this pandemic began, we really started to explore the idea of a living history. That we are in a moment in time that is constantly evolving, our reactions are constantly evolving, and what is our role that we play in that living history.

And so students in my class is primarily the grade 10 history class. I have three sections of that this semester. We have been documenting week-to-week what our living history is like and connecting it with things that we were studying. So we had just finished our World War I unit, so it was almost perfect timing especially with the comparison to the Spanish flu in 1918.

SC:        It’s like you planned it.

LY:        It was like I planned it.

SC:        You didn’t though. Let’s just be clear.

LY:        No, no. So it was really interesting the kids were, “Hey, I found this document from 1918. Look at it from what was in our newspaper, The OrilliaMatters online, it’s almost the same.” And so really looking about change in continuity concept. Really started to enrich some of the conversations that were happening. And so students are — as they’re documenting their experiences, we have been using those experiences to mirror the events in history. So we’ve looked at the Great Depression, we’ve looked at some of the economic challenges of the Great Depression. Well, what are some economic challenges that are going to come out of this experience? What are some that are affecting individual families, communities, businesses, corporations as a whole, countries as a whole?

We’re just finishing up World War II so the conversation has led to, well, what sacrifices had to be made within the home front? Can you find similarities and differences between your own experiences? So it brings the conversation instead of looking how I think I have taught history the last let’s say five years or so with that emphasis of historical perspective, its bringing it back to the student’s experience. And we haven’t had, for our generation of students, haven’t had that.

I know for me, as a teacher, that moment was 9/11. It was my third year teaching when 9/11 hit and that changed everything for me in terms of how I wanted the classroom to run, in terms of how I delivered historical content, how I looked at historical significance of every event and the stories that came out of that. And so that’s where I changed my pedagogy from teaching a regurgitation of information from a textbook to the personal stories are the best lens for teaching history.

SC:        Yeah, I love that. Because when I was hearing from what you’re saying is how you’re using this moment to say, all right, we’ll continue to teach history, but really we’re just going to help you make sense of your experiences at this moment through history. And I think that is so powerful at this moment, but also just as practice separate from this moment. And it’s interesting that you link it with 9/11 because that has come up in the series before as a key thing that we are — that we kind of link this to.

I was in university at the time and I don’t remember things changing too much in our classrooms other than perhaps more critical awareness, but I knew as a student, I wanted it to come up in the classroom more. And so it’s interesting, that link.

LY:        Yup, yup. And I think 9/11 definitely created sort of more of an ideological change —

LY:        — to where I think this experience  is going to affect — the community of a school is going to affect a classroom layout. So just see the logistics of how to teach in a classroom, what is going to be allowed. I worry for things like extracurricular sports, drama performances. Are our schools going to revert back to sort of the industrial age where you have to do A, B, and C and there’s no movement for creativity or inquiry. And get up in the classroom and talk with your peers and create in the classroom. Like that is my biggest worry coming out of this that we will be limited due to health concerns, due to fear of how interactive our classrooms can be.

SC:        Well, that was part of my fear too. And the questions that I had that kind of spark to this series, but it wasn’t around the physicality part of. It was more like, is history just going to be understood as this leisure activity? Because now people have these health concerns, these economic concerns that history might just seem like this bonus, fun navel gazing thing when like you’re saying and everyone in the series has said, it was such a foundational element for understanding ourselves and the world at this moment.

LY:        I think it gives us the tools to break down what is happening. And for an adolescent, they’re struggling to make sense of it all. What is their role? Sometimes they’re watching their parents trying to make ends meet. They can’t see their friends. And they look around and we’re seeing this in the south of the border, this protest to open the economy and open everything and everything go back to normal, well, it can’t go back to normal.

And so if we can sort of give students a tool of how to break it down and unpack it through sort of comparative elements through our own curriculum, they’ve got at least a tool to start. It’s almost like that life preserver that they can grab on to a little bit and then start to formulate and ask those questions. How can we move forward into our next journey in the next five, 10 years or so?

SC:        It’s interesting that you said life preserver because right as you said that, I’m imagining a student like reaching out and being like, let me just feel like I’m not alone. And so I think that’s a really great metaphor. Thank you for bringing it to the conversation. Although people have talked about boats and ships, I think you’re the first to have said life preserver.

LY:        Well, and I think what I’m hoping that I will get across to my students too is that element of hope that we looked at the Great Depression. Canada came out of the Great Depression. We got through two world wars. We got out of those two world wars, and we learnt something.

And so history to me is we are always learning from our mistakes. Nothing is perfect, but how can we make the world a better place from an event that has happened? And I think that will be the next generation’s job is to, do we become a more compassionate society? Do we take care of our elderly population? Do we support our governments even though we might not agree with every one of their policies to work collectively for the greater good? These are all questions that our student’s generation will need to tackle.

SC:        And I think of Ian Duncan’s video when he said, “I don’t know who the students are going to be when we get back to the classrooms.” And I think that’s such a powerful statement. Like what the students want and need from their schools. And that’s an element of what I’m hearing from you as well, that element of hope. Do they want to go out and make change or are they going to feel just kind of so traumatized by this moment they’re like, let’s just do the status quo? Do you think that these conversations will be part of teaching when we go back in whenever the way that looks like? Do you think teaching history will change, the underlying elements of teaching will change after this moment?

LY:        I think definitely they will. And I think it’s pulling upon that personal experience. They have something now to relate to what we’re talking about. So personal experiences in growth and resiliency, these are all themes in history even dating back to the early Romans and Greeks that look for stories that we can tell about successes, about conquering for good, about societies that have been sort of on the brink of disaster and have made it out the other side. And I think we can control the narrative a little bit into looking at history not just from such a sort of negative perspective or such a hardship perspective, but to really pull out the good of the stories. And I think this leads really nicely into a celebration of more equity and diversity within our teaching of history. The celebration of community, the celebration of supporting one another, we can bring that into the classroom. And not only just work on that curriculum content, but definitely those 21st century skills as well.

SC:        And to recognize the variety of different experiences from the same moment, right? I that is coming out really clearly — as a really clear theme in a lot of the things that we’ve been talking about both in this series, but also just kind of in society in general the inequities of how the pandemic is impacting people. And I think that it’s something that young people are going to be thinking about when they get back into the classrooms. Do you have any thoughts on that?

LY:        Well, just even within my own classes, we were having a discussion and some feedback from students where the fact that it’s not fair how this has been handled in terms of kids not all having access to the same amount of internet, different quality of devices. We have some kids that are sharing one device between six family members. So just that logistical piece again of distance learning activity, it doesn’t work within our society. There is — we have even among staff that staff have gone through all of their bandwidth and Internet access for a month and are paying hundreds and hundreds of dollars out of pocket to provide services for students. So there is that logistical equity thing.

In teaching history, I think definitely, it will change in terms of the stories that we tell, as I said before, looking at sort of different socioeconomic perspectives of events, looking at different racial and diverse and cultural perspectives really will enhance the story of what our own experiences were and to be consciously aware in the classroom that these voices need to be adhered to.

SC:        So this seems like a really great segue to my final question about imagining a new ‘we’, which is the idea of the video series generally separate from “Pandemic Pedagogy” and a lot of my work about how do we provide more space for experiences both in the past and in the present in our classrooms in a way that challenges who and what we imagine to be part of a ‘we’. And this imagination can be from a creative perspective. It can also just be from the philosophical perspective. Do you think that we are going to have more opportunities to imagine a new ‘we’ in our classrooms, but also in our practices after this moment or even during this moment?

LY:        I think we definitely will have to imagine a new ‘we’ in the classroom. I think that’s given. I think the way we have been presenting material, running a classroom is going to change just from logistical point of views. But from a philosophical point of view, students have a new experience. They need to be able to feel that that experience is validated. They need to be able to come and find a safe space. They need to be able to be listened to.

So I’m predicting that once we get back into the classroom, I’m not worrying about hitting every timeline. I’m worrying about the mental health of my students. I’m worrying about them finding a voice that might have not been honored within their home as much. And finding those connections again. A lot of students might have been alone. Only children, you know, and very isolated. And so we have to almost recondition students in how to interact face-to-face, and I think that’s going to be a learning process within itself.

In terms of looking at it from a school community, I think it is very, very important that we do have those caring adults in the buildings for the students, that we do provide opportunities for student voice and student-led recovery whether that’d be assemblies, whether that’d be small groups that feel like they need to meet. New extracurricular clubs can come out of this.

I hope our school community becomes a more inclusive community in which the students direct how they want their community to be. I also feel that I think we might have that community bubble out into our greater community through helping things like food banks, veteran’s associations and legions. Just being aware of our seniors in our community. I think that’s kind of a message home for a lot of our young people is what can we do to help? And I hope that carries through in years to come within our schools.

SC:        That’s so powerful. One of the things that for me, history is about activating change, right? Using that to make a change. And what I’m hearing from you is how important those changes will be for the world and how not only our history classes, but our whole communities in our schools, in our classrooms can be a part of that.

One of the things I talk about a lot both in my book, but also the series is that students need connection, but they also need complexity and they need care. And another thing I’m hearing from you is all three of those things rolled into one. That those connections are complex, and therefore, the care also needs to be complex. So thank you so much for bringing that dimension to this conversation. It’s so powerful. Thank you.

LY:        One thing that I’ve been sort of unpacking a little bit too is the idea of we’ve gone from this society of ‘me’. Everything has been so almost self-absorbed, and how does this affect me? And what can I do? It’s my cellphone, it’s my right. It’s this, that and the other thing. I think we’re going to go away from that and move towards what you were saying is the new ‘we’. And I hope we can move from this sort of internal feeling of obligation to widening that to a little bit more of open arms for others and the empathy for the people around us.

SC:        And also, for me, part of that too is to be aware of how you can change in positive ways by being open to the needs of ‘other’. So it’s not just that you’re now saying, “Okay, others, you can come into my space.” But like that ‘others’ can broaden who you understand yourself to be, and therefore, your own understanding of your cellphone or your learning or that kind of individuality, that to me is such a potential for this moment.

LY:        Well, yeah. We tend to be reflective of how others see us. And I think that’s an important thing that we’re losing right now is being so isolated and not having that constant contact with other people, and so we do have to get that back I think at some point.

SC:        Yeah, it will be really interesting. Thank you so much for this talk. It was so amazing. You’ve provided so much food for thought, but it’s kind of the perfect thing, a perfect video to come out in June because we’re not in our classrooms in the same way. I mean, like our virtual classrooms in the same way, but we’re also decompressing a little for the summer and knowing that we are going to need to prepare for something. We have no idea what it’s like in the fall. And I think this is such a great thoughtful way to help people think about their own pedagogy and practices for whatever September will bring. So thank you so much, Leanne.

LY:        Thank you very much, Samantha.

SC:        This was great. We’ll talk later. Bye.

LY:        Bye.